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Welcome to Episode 140 of the Non-Anxious Leader Podcast. I'm Jack Shitama. Before we get into today's episode, I want to remind you again that the Family Systems Book study using my book, if you Met my Family, you'd understand starts in about two weeks on Tuesday, September 28 at 07:00 p.m.. Eastern Time. You can find out more about it at the Non Anxious Leader Network, which is network, thenonanxiousleader.com and there is a link in the show notes where you can join the study. It is free and you don't have to buy the book to participate.

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Today's topic comes from a coaching client who asked me about the difference between being a self and being selfish. So thank you for that. And if you ever have any ideas about what you want me to unpack from a Family Systems perspective, please go to thenonanxiousleader.com. Fill out the contact form or if you are on my email list, just send me an email directly. I love getting ideas from you.

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And now, without further Ado, here is Episode 140, Being a self is not selfish. Selfishness is the tendency to prioritize one's own desires and needs above the needs and desires of other people. Sometimes when you are self differentiating, you have to choose between your own needs and those of other people. So what is the difference between being a self and being selfish? I'm going to start by referencing a research article entitled Healthy Selfishness and Pathological Altruism Measuring Two Paradoxical Forms of Selfishness by Scott Berry, Kaufman and Emmanuel Jauk.

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I will put a link to this in the show notes, although I will say it's pretty dense, pretty hefty, but I'll link it in case you want to dig in deeper yourself. In the article, the authors quote Abraham Maslow, the one who is famous for Maslow's hierarchy of needs, who says that when we talk about selfishness as a behavior that brings pleasure or benefit to the individual. That "for our part, we must not prejudge the case. We must not assume that selfish or unselfish behavior is either good or bad until we actually determine where the truth exists.

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It may be that at certain times selfish behavior is good and at other times it is bad. It also may be that unselfish behavior is sometimes good and at other times bad. A good deal of what appears to be unselfish behavior may come out of forces that are psychopathological that originates in selfish motivation." The first thing that jumps out at me from this is that there are times when being selfish is not necessarily bad. And I would say that when we are self differentiating in a healthy way, this is not necessarily bad selfishness.

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So how do we tell the difference? Maslow goes on to say, "Healthy selfishness is to have a healthy respect for oneself that stems from abundance and need gratification that comes out of inner riches rather than inner poverty. From here on out. When I talk about selfishness, I mean unhealthy selfishness. And when I refer to self differentiation that will refer to what we call family systems. Self differentiation. The main difference, according to Maslow, is that selfishness comes from an inner poverty where, as self differentiation comes from inner riches.

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When I think of this, I think of Marshall Rosenberg's nonviolent communication and the concept of unmet needs. The difference is where they come from and how we go about meeting them. Self differentiation is the ability to claim one's own goals and values in the midst of surrounding togetherness pressure. So it's all about knowing what you believe, what's important to you, where you're going in life, what you need, what you want. The inner riches come from the strength of conviction. It comes from an intrinsic motivation. It comes from having a Compass that is always there to guide you in the direction that you need to go.

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Self differentiation requires selfawareness and reflection and intentionality, so you are able to express what you need in a healthy way. On the other hand, selfish people tend to not be as self aware, and while they are trying to fill needs, it is the unhealthy means that they use to achieve them. So what does this look like? To lay this out? I want to go with two concepts. One is narcissism and the other is pathological altruism. I'll unpack that in a few moments. But first of all, let's start with Narcissism, and there are two definitions of narcissism that I want to share.

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One is the psychological one and the other is a psycho analytical one. So the psychological definition of narcissism is selfishness, involving a sense entitlement, lack of empathy and a need for admiration from others which characterizes one's personality type. The two important things here related to self differentiation are the lack of empathy, that is, the lack of the ability to connect emotionally with others and the need for the admiration of others. So it is the need to affirm oneself from external circumstances, especially how other people think about you.

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The psycho analytical definition is self centeredness, so not necessarily selfishness, but a centering on self arising from the failure to distinguish the self from external objects. So it is really the defining of self in a way that is not able to separate us from others. We are defining ourselves in relation to others. So this is the opposite of self differentiation. Well, this may be a form of selfdefinition where they know what they want. They can't do it apart from needing to feel affirmed by others. So there is a defining of self in relation to others, so narcissists are able to know what they want and to go after it, but they aren't able to do it in a healthy way.

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They lack empathy and they lack the ability to do this because of intrinsic motivation. There's something outside of themselves that is driving it. A narcissist tends to go after what they want in a way that doesn't have any concern about its impact on others, and narcissist often will use guilt or anger or other forms of manipulation to get what they want. This, by its very definition, is not self differentiation. It's selfishness. For example, if somebody says you don't care about me, if you don't show up to this party, their need is for you to show up to the party, but they're defining themselves dependent on your action, and they are defining you by saying that you don't care about them.

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If you don't do what they want. Self differentiation, on the other hand, would be, I'd really like you to come to the party. I hope you can. This illustrates one main difference between selfishness and self differentiation, and that is taking responsibility for self. In the selfish example, somebody who is dependent on another's action is not taking responsibility for self. Their own sense of worth is dependent on the action of others. Self differentiation, on the other hand, may want the same outcome but is willing to take responsibility for self that even if the outcome isn't what they want, they are going to be okay.

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So one aspect of selfishness is the idea of win or lose. Either the narcissist gets what they want and then they win. They don't care if you lose or not or they don't get what they want and they lose. Things are bad. Where is a self differentiated person? It is all about win.

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Win.

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I know what I want. I want for you what you want, and if they're not the same, that's okay. What's hard to distinguish is when a self differentiated person goes ahead and does what they think is best for themselves, even if other people disagree. And so that tends to look like selfishness. That tends to look like narcissism. But the difference is emotional connection. There is still a sense of empathy. There is still a sense of interdependence. A self differentiated person is going to say that they understand the other person doesn't agree with them doing it, doesn't want them to do it, but they're going to do it anyway.

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But by being self differentiated, they also show that they care for those who disagree with them. The authors also share a concept called pathological altruism, which they suggest is the other side of the coin from narcissism and is a form of selfishness. They write, "at the core of the inner world of those with pathological altruism is a deep sense of shame related to their secret wish to display themselves in their needs in a grandiose manner stemming from a lack of a sense of self. Attention is continually directed toward others, reading, anticipating or attempting to guess others needs and giving them priority over their own real needs."

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The idea here is that there is also an inner poverty here, the lack of a sense of self, a need to be affirmed by others, and that this plays itself out not as narcissists do and always trying to get their own way, but really in a form of adaptivity, always trying to please others, not being able to define self. And while this wouldn't be considered selfishness, it's important to note that it could comes from the same place. It comes from this so called inner poverty. So one way I would say that we can distinguish between selfish people and self differentiated people is, do we have a sense that what they are doing is coming from inner riches and inner abundance of what they believe and in their convictions and a willingness to stay connected to others?

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Or is it coming from some unmet need that they are trying to satisfy? So I would say that there are two main components of self differentiation that distinguish it from selfishness. The first is taking responsibility for self. It's knowing what you want and what you need, but not only that, it's knowing that you have the responsibility to find healthy ways to get there. You don't depend on anybody else to be the one to meet your needs, to get you where you want to go, you're willing to ask, but you realize that they may not be able to help.

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In addition, you also know that you are connected to others, and you don't operate in a vacuum. Taking responsibility for self means knowing that you are interdependent, that you are responsible for finding your way in the world for meeting your needs, but that you also depend on others and you are connected to others. This doesn't mean that you can count on them to meet your needs, but it does mean that you understand that what you do impacts others. And so when you decide to do something, even if it upsets others, you don't do it without caring.

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You don't do it without staying connected. That is what it means to be responsible for self. The second component of self differentiation, as opposed to selfishness, is the ability to express your needs, express your wants in a healthy way. And I think of Marshall Rosenberg and nonviolent communication when he talks about the difference between a request and a demand, he says, you don't truly know if something is a request until you see how you respond. If the other says no, if you are fine with the other saying no, then it is simply a request, and this is what self differentiated people do.

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Self differentiated people are able to express what they believe, express what they need while giving others the freedom to disagree, giving others the freedom to say no. Self differentiated people make requests. On the other hand, selfish people make demands. They require that the other person agree with them. They require that the other person meet their needs. They require that the other person do what they need them to do, and that is selfish. You can tell a selfish person is making a demand when you say no and they start getting angry or they start blaming you or they start defining you, or they start saying that you don't care about them.

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On the other hand, a self differentiated person might express how they feel, but they're not placing demands on you, so they might say, Well, I'm disappointed, but that's okay. I understand, or I'll figure out a way to do it. You don't need to worry about me. I'll be okay. So when you are trying to be a non anxious leader, the important thing is that you know what you believe. You know what you need. You know where you want to go and you express that in a healthy way and you give others their own emotional space to make their own decisions.

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Now, in some cases, they're going to have to go along. But if you understand that they disagree and you acknowledge it, you're showing that emotional connection. The fact that other people don't always agree with you doesn't make you selfish. And the fact that you are willing to listen to others, to stay emotionally connected and even change your mind means that you're less concerned about being right than you are about getting to the best course of action as a leader. That's the difference between self differentiation and selfishness, so that's it for Episode 140.

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Don't forget the Family Systems Book study starting on September 28, and you can find a link to join for free and the show notes at thenonanxiousleader.com/140. Until next time, thanks and goodbye.