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Welcome to Episode 110 of The Non-Anxious Leader podcast and just a little aside here. The house number on our house is 110 and it is on the side of the deck when you come in our driveway. I asked our three and a half year old grandson, this is probably six months ago when he was three, I asked him, what are those numbers? And he said 11 zero. And I thought to myself, well, he's not wrong.

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Even though I say one 10, 11 zero is not incorrect. I let it go because I know that if I try to convince him otherwise, he'll probably just push back and we'll get in an a standoff over whether it's one 10 or 11 zero. So just a little family systems lesson there on resistance and allowing other people the freedom to disagree.

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Something else I want to share with you is I can tell from the download statistics that many of you are avoiding Episode 106, "The Importance of a Loyal Opposition."

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I get perhaps that that doesn't sound as interesting to you, but this is all about leadership through self-differentiation and why it's important to have a loyal opposition. It's a term that Edwin Friedman used. So if you are avoiding it, I want to encourage you to go back and listen to it. And hey, feel free to do what you want to do. I can't control your life. Anyway, without further ado, here is episode 11 zero.

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As the title of this episode indicates, not all conflicts are equal. There are three kinds of conflict that I want to go through today. The first is task conflict, and it's just like it sounds. This kind of conflict centers around a task or a goal. Conflicts can occur when people disagree on how to get it done, who is responsible or even how to define the goal or task.

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The second type of conflict is values conflict. This is a clash of identity or beliefs such as politics, religion or social values. I've learned over the years that people don't negotiate their closely held values. In general, when there is a values conflict, nothing is going to be decided unless somebody changes their mind. This is highly unlikely, especially when it comes to values.

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When we take a look at our political divide in this country, we can understand why each side is so entrenched. This is a classic values conflict and the rhetoric is not conducive to healthy discussion. Instead, it is characterized by defining others as wrongheaded or even evil. Of course, this is antithetical to self-differentiation and is not helpful.

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The third type of conflict is relationship conflict. This occurs when there is tension or animosity that goes deeper than just disagreements about tasks or values. In this case, there is a lack of self-differentiation in one or both parties. Relationship conflict is characterized by the lack of taking responsibility for self. This includes blaming the other for one's condition, defensiveness, resentment and other forms of reactive or adaptive behavior.

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When there is no relationship conflict, that is when two people are self-differentiated, the other two types of conflict can be handled. In other words, because both parties are able to say what they believe while giving other people the freedom to disagree, they can have a reasonable conversation even if they don't end up agreeing on the task or value at hand.

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Research shows that when relationship conflict is low in work teams, they are much more productive, even when tasks conflict is high. In fact, teams with low relationship conflict tend to have higher task conflict because people are willing to debate passionately over how to best achieve the mission of the team. When members of a team are self-differentiated, relationship conflict will be low. And as a leader you can encourage healthy task conflict.

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Likewise, when there is values conflict without relationship conflict, the disagreement is characterized by respect and the willingness to accept that the two parties might never agree. Because both parties are well differentiated, they can have this kind of disagreement without it negatively affecting their relationship.

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This reminds me of a time back in 2009 when I was having dinner at a good friend's house. At that point in time, it was the first year of the Obama administration and it didn't take long for my friend to start ranting about how Obama was ruining this country. I was able to get a little playful and I stretched out my hand like a traffic cop to stop my friend's rant. Then I called him by name and I said, "Look, I suffered for eight years under "W," and did I ever complain to you? Now it's your turn."

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"Good point," he responded and he never ranted again. That's not to say that over the next eight years we didn't have discussions about issues that were important to both of us and upon which we disagree. But it never turned into a rant complaining about the wrongness of the other person's position.

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The problem with relationship conflict is it makes task and values conflict harder to handle. When there is relationship conflict, people confuse the different kinds of conflict. Task and values conflict are taken personally and can result in deepening conflict and even cut off. Being able to recognize and distinguish between the different types of conflict enables us to have a better handle on how to manage the situation.

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For example, if you are self-differentiated and there is relationship conflict, the first question is to ask is, "Am I taking responsibility for myself or am I somehow taking it out on the other person?" Presumably, if you are self-differentiated, you are taking responsibility for yourself. So if this is the case and the answer is no, then the likelihood is that the other party has anxiety or pain that they are taking out on you. And that is the source of the relationship conflict.

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In any event, the key here is to understand the emotional process going on and avoid getting into a conflict of wills. Don't argue. Don't agree. Let's take a look at what you can do as a leader to reduce relationship conflict and encourage healthy task and values conflict.

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The best thing you can do to reduce any kind of conflict, whether it's relationship, task or values conflict, is to maintain an open mind. This is the essence of self-differentiation and being a non-anxious presence.

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One helpful way to do this is to think about what not to do. And the best way to express this is how Wharton psychologist Adam Grant, in his new book, Think Again, says, don't be a preacher, a prosecutor or a politician.

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A preacher is one who tries to convince the other of her own rightness. When you are in a disagreement and you try to convince the other person that you are right, you are in preacher mode. On the other hand, when you are trying to convince the other person that they are wrong, you are in prosecutor mode. Reactive behavior is characterized by both preacher and prosecutor mode. In preacher mode, we get defensive and instead of defining ourselves in non-anxious ways, we defend ourselves and take it personally, allowing our own anxiety to make things worse. Conversely, in prosecutor mode, we are defining the other person. Specifically, we are telling them how they are wrong and trying to "convict" their wrongheaded point of view.

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The third mode is politician mode. Instead of being reactive, this leans towards being adaptive. The politician is trying to please the audience and therefore may be willing to waver on her own values and beliefs. This is what adaptive people do when they are unable to take non-anxious emotional stands.

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If you have followed my work for any length of time, you know that I believe one of the best ways to maintain a non-anxious presence, in the midst of anxious conflicts, is to listen. When you listen, you are not arguing, you are not agreeing, and you are staying emotionally connected. As it turns out, there is research that supports this approach.

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Psychologists who were treating substance abuse problems developed a technique called motivational interviewing. This approach avoids trying to force other people to change and tries to foster their own motivation to change. The basic technique is similar to what I recommend to non-anxious leaders in anxious situations. That is, to ask open-ended questions and listen.

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The psychologist's role is to detect any desire to change and if there is a desire to help guide them towards a plan. Research has shown that motivational interviewing has helped people to stop abusing drugs and alcohol, stop gambling, quit smoking, to improve their diet and exercise, to overcome eating disorders and even to lose weight. Furthermore, it has helped people get a better night's sleep, to reconsider their prejudices and to reach settlements in divorce cases.

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The fundamental assumption behind this approach is that trying to convince another person to do what you want them to do will not only result in greater resistance, but it will make it less likely that they will agree with you. By listening, you give people a chance to make up their own mind. I would contend that the point to this type of listening is not so much to change the mind of the other person, but to focus on building a healthy relationship, thereby reducing any potential relationship conflict. When you do this, you make it possible to have healthy task and values conflict.

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To me, this is a critical skill in being a non-anxious leader. You want to have healthy task conflict because you will end up with a better result than when everybody agrees. And sometimes you need to have a values conflict because there may be situations where you need to reconsider your own values. A self-differentiated person, a non-anxious leader is willing to keep open to this possibility. If you are able to do this yourself, you will encourage others to do the same. This is what non-anxious leaders do.

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That's it for episode one, 10 or 11 zero, depending on how you want to say it. Don't forget to reach out to me at thenonanxiousleader.com. I'd love to hear from you. Let me know what questions you might have and sign up for my mailing list.