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Welcome to episode 159 of The Non-anxious Leader Podcast. I'm Jack Shitama and today's episode is a rebroadcast of episode 84, Edwin Friedman's Tensions and Leadership and I go through eleven tensions and leadership that Friedman mentions in a video lecture. I will post a link to that in the show notes. The important thing about these tensions is that they demonstrate to us that leadership through self-differentiation is not scripted. We have to be always thinking and always understanding what's going on and navigate between these tensions to find the sweet spot, to find the right way that we want to respond, that we want to behave in a given situation. I will say that the audio in this is not very good. I recorded it in my car two days after my grandson was born and so I would not have a whole lot of time to sit in the studio and record. So the audio is not great, but I think that you will find the content helpful. So without further Ado, here is rebroadcast of 84. I'm calling this one episode 159 11 Tensions in Leadership.

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The first tension in Friedman's tensions in leadership is there is a time to work on connection and a time to work on self differentiation. And what I think he means here is that there are times when you are self defining. You are able to take a stand. You're able to say what you believe even while giving others the freedom to disagree. But you will need to remain connected, especially to those who are most anxious and those who are resisting. And then other times when there is a tremendous amount of surrounding togetherness pressure, you will be connected to others, especially in your own family of origin or in a congregation where you know everybody well. And that is a time when you're going to need to self differentiated. You're going to need to be able to self define and say what you believe in a healthy way. So there is the spectrum in self differentiation between self definition and connection and being able to know when you need to lean in one direction or another based on the context, based on the system and the state of the system at that time is really important. The second tension is there's a time to pursue facts and a time to not worry about content and focus on process.

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And you probably have heard me say this a lot about the difference between process and content. So when somebody is coming to you and they are self differentiating, they are saying what they believe in a healthy way and they're not trying to define you in their image, then that is the time to pursue facts. That's the time to buckle down and listen and engage and try to work out the best solution, even if it's not what you believed going in. That's a healthy conversation. But then the time to not worry about content and focus on process is when somebody is defining you, when somebody is blaming you or actually triangling you or triangling another, you can recognize the process, the emotional process that's going on when they come to you and they are trying to get you to fix somebody else. And that is another way that you can recognize emotional process, something that is going on where they are not defining themselves in a healthy way. So that is focusing on process, not content. And there are times when you can engage in content. There are times when you want to pursue the facts.

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But again, this is a spectrum, this is a symmetry. And sometimes you got to go in one direction and sometimes you need to go in the other. And being a nonanxious leader means you understand the difference and are able to manage that appropriately. The third tension in Friedman's tensions and leadership is there is a time to get out of or avoid triangles and a time to create triangling. Now, this one is a bit perplexing because you might wonder, well, when do you want to create triangles? And in a lot of cases, you just want to avoid the triangle, especially if somebody is telling you a secret about somebody else or somebody who's wanting you to fix somebody else. And the best way to get out of that is to just say, well, it sounds like you have a problem there and not offer to help, not offer to get involved or you really need to have a conversation there, don't you? And so you're really giving the problem back to the other person. But sometimes you do want to create triangles or at least stay involved in the triangling because being in the triangling actually gives you a more powerful position, not in terms of exerting manipulation, but power and influencing the situation.

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So when you stay in a triangle with two other people and you remain a nonanxious presence with each of them without necessarily trying to fix the relationship of the other two, then that can be a powerful situation. And in fact, you can create a triangle sometimes when you are trying to do what Friedman calls, which is delegating anxiety. So let's say there's a situation where the problem is not you, the problem is somebody else, and you can go up to other people and create a triangling by saying, did you hear what so and so said? I'm kind of worried about that. And that delegates the anxiety to somebody else and enables them to then think about what are they going to have to do. That's a way to create a triangle. So it is not necessarily that we don't want to get in triangles at all. But sometimes we want to be in triangling, sometimes we want to shift the dynamic of the triangle. For example, stay in a triangle and move to the other side. So I mentioned last week how my mom called my brother when she was upset with me. And one of the ways you can do is stay in the triangle.

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But shift the emphasis, since it's not exactly creating a triangle, but it's not avoiding one is when somebody triangles you in that way, they call you up and say, what am I going to do about I want you to do something about your brother and you can say something like, Well, I agree with him. I just happen to agree with them. We've already talked about it. That puts you on the side of the triangle with the person that they're trying to triangling you and the other person, and it enables you to then put the pressure back on the person who's not able to handle their own discomfort. So there is a time to get out of triangles, but there's also a time to remain in them or even create them. And then the fourth one is a time to be doggedly persistent towards one's own goals. That is to be insensitive and a time to be sensitive to others. And I think this is very similar to the first. This is similar to being able to know when connection is needed or when selfdefinition is needed. So you want to be doggedly persistent towards your own goals when self definition is needed.

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When the surrounding togetherness pressure is trying to knock you off track. You're connected to people already, but you actually need to be able to self define. You need to be persistent towards your goals and even being sensitive to those around you who are trying to pressure you to get back into your old self. Then the other extreme is really being sensitive to others when there hasn't been as much connection, it's been clear that you've been able to define and maybe other people have been able to define too. But people are getting really anxious. And by being connected without solving the problem with them for them, by being connected, without taking over their pain, taking on their pain for them, you actually can help them get through their own anxiety and get to a healthier place. The fifth of these tensions and leadership, according to Edwin Friedman, is there is a time to be a nonanxious support and a time to be a challenger. And I think especially as a leader, we need to know the difference between when we just need to be connected to somebody and walk alongside them and a time when we actually really need to challenge them to deal with their own pain, to take responsibility for self.

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And both things are important. Being connected and being supportive to people is very important. But if we do it to the extent that we are taking on their pain for them, that we're taking responsibility for them. Of course, we are not doing them any good. And it's at that point that we need to really be challenging them to think about how they can take responsibility for itself. The 6th and 7th are very similar, so I'm going to read them both together. There's a time to be decisive and a time to fumble and not get stuck with the responsibility. And there's a time to do things yourself and a time to avoid taking responsibility. So let's think about the first part of those clauses in each of those two that are very similar. There's a time to be decisive or there's a time to do things yourself. So when it's important to take responsibility for self, you want to go ahead and be decisive. You want to go ahead and do what you need to do. And these are cases when you need to take a non anxious emotional stand, you need to be the one who owns up to what has to happen, whether it's admitting a mistake or it's taking the next step forward or it's declaring what you believe.

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These are all things that it's important because you need to own who you are and what you believe you need to take responsibility for yourself. On the other hand, when there is a time that you shouldn't be taking responsibility for other people, then you don't want to get stuck with responsibility. And Friedman calls it in these phrases, fumbling so kind of actually stumbling along and not really being decisive, not really getting involved too directly and too quickly. And also he talks about avoiding taking responsibility. So when it's somebody else's pain, when it's somebody else's problem, when it's somebody else who really needs to take responsibility for self, then we want to stay out of it. We want to avoid taking responsibility in terms of doing things for other people. But as I've already said in some of these other tensions, we also do need to stay connected to the others. Number eight on Friedman's list of tensions and leadership. Is there's a time to act quickly and display lots of confidence and a time to display your limitations? And I again think this goes back to taking responsibility for self. When it is appropriate to take responsibility for self, then by all means act quickly and with confidence because you are willing to be proven wrong.

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You're saying, I might be wrong about this or you don't have to agree with me, but you're taking a nonanxious emotional stand and doing it with confidence is a healthy way to do it. On the other hand, when you are being asked to take responsibility for others or the problems of others, then you want to hold back. You want to display your limitations and say, I'm not up to that, or that's really something I think you should handle or that's something I believe you need to take care of for yourself so that's when you want to display that limitation, that reticence. Number nine, is there's a time to be playful and a time to be serious. And this is all about process and content. So when the emotional process tells you that there's a lot of anxiety going on, they're surrounding togetherness pressure. There are people who are not taking responsibility for self. There are people who are defining and blaming others, then you want to stay out of the content. And that's a great time to be playful. Don't engage in the content, but just keep things light. Try to bring the anxiety level down in the room.

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And of course, being serious is always appropriate when people are self differentiating and you want to have a serious conversation. But remember, seriousness has its limits too. If you get too serious, then it flows over into anxiety and becomes a problem in itself. So being serious in an appropriate way, taking things seriously is always a good thing when people are self differentiating and you're trying to work through a challenge. But if you get too serious, you can turn a challenge into a problem. Number ten, there's a time to be self protective and a time to be vulnerable. And this is a hard one because I think about this and I think when is it good to kind of protect yourself? And what I came to was that it's good to protect yourself when there is a lot of anxiety and blaming going on. Because if you are vulnerable in that situation, you are inviting people to just destroy you or try to destroy you. People will smell blood, so you want to kind of keep it close to the vest at that point. You want to also be able to maintain a nonanxious emotional stand, be able to say what you believe, give people the freedom to disagree and stay connected.

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But you don't want to lay yourself out there completely. However, there are times when there are enough healthy leaders, enough selfdifferentiated people in the system that it's good to be vulnerable because people do appreciate transparency, people do appreciate vulnerability if it's done appropriately. And so it's okay to say you're hurting. It's okay to say you're struggling with something, but do it in a way that helps other people see you as a real person and not as a target for their own anxiety. Then finally, there's a time to go on your own authority and a time to rely on tradition. And again, I think this goes back to when you are the one who has to take responsibility, when you are the one who needs to make a stand, then you can go on your own authority. You can believe in yourself always with the caveat that you may not be right, that you may have to change your mind. I keep saying that over and over again, but being self differentiated is not being cocky to the point that your mind can't be changed. You're not being cocky to the point that you're unwilling to listen to others.

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So you are willing to go on your own authority when you truly believe that this is what God is leading you to do and you want to help others to see that as well. And if you do that knowing that you may be wrong, then I think it's appropriate. On the other hand, you do want to rely on tradition when this is not a situation where you are the one who is supposed to be leading the charge. If you're not the leader, or if you're not able to figure out exactly what needs to happen, then it's okay to lean on tradition a little bit, especially when there are a lot of healthy people in the system. Tradition is not necessarily a bad thing and when it doesn't create surrounding togetherness pressure, when it's something that is beloved but does not contribute to stuckness, then by all means rely on tradition. So those are the eleven tensions and Leadership According to Edwin Friedman, in a workshop that was recorded and posted on YouTube, I will post a link to that in the show notes. I really found these helpful because they're a reminder to me that leadership is not something where you can just check boxes.

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You can't just prescribe what to do and be a great leader, especially a nonanxious leader. It is important to be able to understand context and understand emotional process and then know which direction you need to lean, whether it's towards connection or self definition, or whether it's towards taking responsibility or avoiding responsibility for others. So in these tensions, I hope you will find helpful guides to help you to grow as a nonanxious leader.

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That's it for Episode 159. If you want to dig deeper, you can get a transcript of this episode at thenonanxiousleader.com/159. It takes a few hours to get the transcript posted, but you will be able to get it by about noon Eastern Standard time on Monday, January 24. Until next time, thanks and goodbye.

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