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Welcome to Episode 148 of the Non-anxious Leader Podcast. I'm Jack Shitama. And before we get into today's episode, I want to remind you that I am looking to hear about your favorite episode or episodes so I can curate a list of the top ten episodes that people might start with if they are new to this podcast. So connect with me at thenonanxiousleader.com. You can use the contact form or if you are on my email list, just send me an email. Thanks in advance. And now without further Ado, here is Episode 148, The difference between Narcissism and Self Differentiation.

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According to Wikipedia, Narcissism refers to a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, which is characterized by feelings of entitlement and superiority, arrogant or haughty behaviors, and a generalized lack of empathy and concern for others. Narcissism is an essential component of mature self-esteem and basic self-worth. It's interesting to me that Narcissism is considered to be a key to self esteem and self worth. My guess is this is because one has to value self enough so that they can function as a healthy individual.

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Of course, the problem with Narcissists is they value self but not others. When I think of the Great Commandment, we are told to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength and love our neighbors as ourselves. Narcissists love themselves, but they clearly don't know how to love their neighbors. In family systems Theory the idea is that a narcissist is somebody who can self define. They know what they want, but they lack emotional connection. This is evident in the definition, which says they have a clear lack of concern and empathy for others.

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I got the idea for this episode from an article in Fast Company called How to Identify Narcissists at Work and When to Avoid Them by Art Markman, Ph.D. I'll post a link in the show notes. One of the important characteristics that Markman points out is that Narcissists believe that things should flow from them to the world rather than the reverse. So information and influence should flow from them to the world, but not vice versa. And so narcissists believe that everything is about them. They are the center of the world.

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If you think about this and family systems terms, this is the self definition part. You know what you want. You're able to communicate it to others. You're able to put it out in the world. You're able to try to influence the situation, but there is no emotional connection. There is no desire for togetherness. Narcissism is a one way street. It's all about what I want and how I want to influence things, but it doesn't work the other way. The self differentiated person holds the tension between self definition and emotional connection in healthy balance, and there certainly is an ebb and flow to this.

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Sometimes you will be more focused on self definition, expressing yourself in a healthy way. Other times you're going to be more focused on togetherness, on connection, and that's okay. As long as these are held in balance and you are able to be a self and stay connected. The best way I like to describe it is a self differentiated leader understands that life is interdependent and that independence does not work. A Narcissist wants to be independent. A Narcissist wants to be able to call all the shots and tell everybody what has to happen, but that is not always possible.

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Non anxious leaders understand that they need to be able to work with other people in healthy ways to get things done and achieve their mission, their goals and values. To go further into this idea that it's a one way street with Narcissists, Markman notes that with Narcissists, they might include other people's thinking they might take other people's ideas, but they don't give them credit for it. They don't acknowledge that these other contributions have had an influence on them. As you probably know, narcissists are great at taking credit and passing blame.

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When things go well, it's all about what they did and when things don't go well, they're looking for other people to blame. This is a classic refusal to take responsibility for self, of course, except when they are taking credit for something that went well. A self differentiated leader will not only give credit to other people when credit is due, but more importantly, non nonanxious leader will own up to their mistakes and ask for forgiveness when needed. Narcissists rarely, if ever will do this. One thing that it's important to understand is the difference between what Markman calls grandiose Narcissists and vulnerable narcissists.

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According to Markman, grandiose narcissists have a strong enough sense of self that they don't feel threatened by other people or don't feel threatened by their ideas. Now they don't necessarily take other people's views into account, but they don't work to undermine people either, and they often like to associate with important people because that emphasizes how special they are. Understanding the idea of a grandiose narcissist helps us to understand the positive side of Narcissism. We need to think of ourselves as special. We want to be able to make a difference in the world.

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The difference is that a healthy leader is able to acknowledge that others are special, too. We all have gifts and graces, and a non-anxious leader is able to value others knowing that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Vulnerable narcissists are fragile. They have a fragile self concept. They need the love of others to prop themselves up. They need to feel special by having others compliment them and affirm them. What makes vulnerable narcissist dangerous is that when they feel threatened, they will go after other people.

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They will criticize them. They will downplay the successes of others, and they are only willing to be with powerful or important people. As long as nobody says that the other people are more powerful or more important. This is the most dangerous type of person to work with. You'll never get anywhere because it's always about them and how they compare to others. Worse yet, their comparisons to others are distorted and their sense of self is so minimal that they need to push others down to build themselves up.

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A vulnerable narcissist is motivated extrinsically. They will measure themselves in relation to others, and it's never about what they really believe or want in terms of values and goals. It's always about how they stack up compared to others. On the other hand, a non-anxious leader is motivated intrinsically non-anxious leader know their own goals and values and work towards them in a healthy way and express them in a healthy way, saying what they believe while giving others the freedom to disagree. Certainly, a narcissist need to stack up well with others can drive achievement, but it will cause them to throw others away when they have no use for them, and they will never be satisfied because there's always one more rung to climb or always somebody who has more status than they do.

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Markman contends in this article that the best thing you can do is avoid working with vulnerable narcissists, and if you have to work with them to minimize your interaction. I tend to agree with this, but I do believe that if you are forced to work with a Narcissist, a vulnerable narcissist, the best thing you can do is remain a non anxious presence. Try to use your skills in listening to show that you care about the vulnerable narcissists. Try to listen and maintain that emotional connection. Remember that they want emotional connection that validates them.

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They're not going to give you emotional connection that validates you. If you do have to take a stand. If you do have to say what you believe, if they really do ask you your opinion, say it in a way that gives them the freedom to disagree. I know I might be wrong about this or you don't have to agree with me, but here's what I believe. A non anxious leader will use the same approach with a vulnerable Narcissist as they would with anybody who is trying to sabotage what they are doing.

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The problem with Narcissist is at some point you will come into a situation where you are going to have to choose between your own goals and values and giving in to the Narcissist. When that occurs the most likely thing that will happen is that you will decide you need to resign or you will take a stand and you will be tossed aside. You will be thrown under the bus, you will be fired. Let go. Whatever. And the Narcissist will have nothing to do with you. Whether you resign or are fired, they will trash you because they no longer have any use for you.

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And while I believe that it's less likely that you are going to encounter a Narcissist of this type in the nonprofit or Ministry world, it still happens. Being as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a Dove becomes more important than ever when working with leaders of this type. But ultimately, one must know that sometimes the best thing to do is to move on as non anxious leaders. If we are honest with ourselves. If we are taking responsibility for ourselves, sometimes that is what we have to do.

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More importantly, I think it's helpful to understand this idea of a Narcissistic leader so that we can be in more balance so that we as non anxious leaders, are able to self define but also maintain emotional connection. This is what will help us to make a difference in the world, and that's it for episode 148. A little bit shorter, but I know that most of you like to listen to these episodes because they are not long. And remember, please connect with me at the Nonaxisleader. Com so you can let me know your favorite episode or episodes until next time.

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Thanks and goodbye.